/superdupergames-archive/6367.raw

  1Homeworlds Online (SDG# 6367)
  2Started: 2007.2.8, Ended: 2007.2.10
  3Participants: nycavri (S), zoltar (N)
  4Winner: zoltar
  5
  61) zoltar: Homeworld B3 Y1 G3
  7nycavri: Hi, Z. My first shot at Homeworlds. I'm happy to be playing someone who clearly knows what they're doing - please mention any blinding errors I make. Thanks! a
  8zoltar: Sure, no problem. Good luck.
  9
 102) nycavri: Homeworld Y3 G2 R3 *
 11
 123) zoltar: Build G1 Zoltar
 13nycavri: You too. By the way, playing GRY rather than BGY for an opening is intentional, rather than an error. I understand the reasons for starting with access to Blue, but humor me.....
 14
 154) nycavri: Build R1 Nycavri
 16zoltar: No problem. The point is that you are forced to build red, and then to move a red out (probably to a blue star) or else build one more red and then move a red out, before you can switch colors. You have few options, whereas I can trade my g1 to any of the 3 colors or build another green or move my green out next turn, so I have more options to start with, and hopefully (for me) can manipulate exhausting smalls of one color and building larger ships sooner than you. But there are so many tricks I haven't learned yet, maybe you can find one this way. I'll be interested to see what you are up to here!
 17
 185) zoltar: Build G1 Zoltar
 19nycavri: Yup. Unorthodox, but since I'm all but flying blind anyway, I'm just looking to have a little fun. Success would just be gravy.....
 20zoltar: b g1 zoltar
 21
 226) nycavri: Discover R1 Nycavri B1 Downtown
 23zoltar: Oops, I typed that in the wrong field!
 24zoltar: If your large star were a blue instead of a yellow, you could now trade the r1 for a y1, and you'd have yellow as well as blue tech in your system. But as it stands, you can't get blue tech for a while, which will limit your options considerably.
 25
 267) zoltar: Trade G1 R1 Zoltar
 27
 288) nycavri: Trade R1 G1 Downtown
 29nycavri: As I said, i understand the theory, but after just 3 turns I now have access to Blue, and I figure an R3 on the Homeworld is a solid defence for a rookie to have up his sleeve.....
 30
 319) zoltar: Trade G1 Y1 Zoltar
 32zoltar: Yes, though it would be nice to have a blue on your homeworld as well, as you can only build reds there until you get one. In the meantime, I'm going to follow the standard opening rule that if your opponent builds a red, you should build one immediately, and considering that *all* your ships are red, it's never too soon to have a defensive piece at home, even though you are many moves from making any threat.
 33
 3410) nycavri: Build G1 Downtown
 35nycavri: Long way to go. I'm a big Icehouse fan, and have read all the Homeworld strategy. Want to put some of it into practice, but need to be convinced first-hand of the insistence of a BGY opening. Likely you'll be the one to show me, but in the meantime, the game seems as intuitive and fun as I had hoped.
 36
 3711) zoltar: Build Y1 Zoltar
 38
 3912) nycavri: Trade G1 B1 Downtown
 40
 4113) zoltar: Discover Y1 Zoltar G2 Greenbelt
 42zoltar: Well, obviously I wanted to build the last y1 piece here, so that you couldn't immediately trade a green piece for it. Now your pieces on 'downtown' are grounded or landlocked until you get a yellow piece, which will take more moves. So you have to either build more red in your homeworld, or build another green, letting me get the first mid-sized green, or trade your green for a blue, a tech you already have at Downtown, or trade a green for a red, a tech you already can make anyway back in your homeworld. None of them are great options, though you aren't in bad shape yet, but without even trying yet, I'm able to slow down your getting yellow tech to expand, so you're gonna be cramped for a while.
 43
 44zoltar: This is similar to a chess game where you've locked your own Bishops in with pawn moves so that they don't have much scope and your position has thus become rather cramped. Again, I have no threats or anything, but later on, this will be trouble if you don't get yellow to expand further.
 45
 4614) nycavri: Build G1 Downtown
 47nycavri: Yup again. I see that you've stalled me. You can tell it's my first game - I wasn't expecting you to grab that last y1, and I should have been.
 48
 4915) zoltar: Build Y2 Zoltar
 50zoltar: b g2 zoltar
 51
 5216) nycavri: Trade G1 B1 Downtown
 53
 5417) zoltar: Trade Y2 B2 Zoltar
 55zoltar: Oops, I used the wrong field again, and I meant to say Y2 anyway.
 56
 57zoltar: Yep, building the Y1 was my only reasonable move, given that you could use one and there was only one left. When you have more flexibility, you have an option of different pieces to make, so that your opponent can't easily block you by taking the single piece that you need.
 58
 5918) nycavri: Build R1 Nycavri
 60zoltar: Now I can build any of the four colors in my homeworld.
 61nycavri: I really feel like rookie. Keep trying to do things and running into the rules head first..... But I don't know that I've ever enjoyed being thrashed as much as this. (Although the thrashing hasn't actually begun, we both know it's coming)
 62
 6319) zoltar: Build B2 Zoltar
 64zoltar: Btw, trading your R3 for a Y3 here, and then building a Y2 next move may look like a simple way out, but it would be a horrible game-ending blunder. I would build a Y2 (at either star) and then when you built a Y2, I would sacrifice my Y2 that I had built for two movements, and I would move my Y1 from Greenbelt to nycavri immediately, cause a catastrophe (with four yellows total), destroy all your ships at nycavri, and the game would be over!
 65zoltar: I meant to say if you sacrificed a b1 so you could trade your R3 for a Y3 that it wouldn't have worked. Building reds and eventually getting a r2 to your blue star and trading it for a y2 is the only way to get yellow for now, but I might have them all by the time you do it.
 66
 6720) nycavri: Trade B1 R1 Downtown
 68nycavri: Thanks for the sacrifice tip. Not sure I would have spotted it as an option, but can see why it's a game ender. There may be a way to open GRY, but I sure didn't find it!
 69
 7021) zoltar: Move B2 Zoltar Greenbelt
 71
 7222) nycavri: Build R2 Downtown
 73
 7423) zoltar: Sacrifice G3 Zoltar
 75Build Y2 Zoltar
 76Build Y2 Greenbelt
 77Build Y2 Greenbelt
 78nycavri: Sorry - gotta run. I'll be back tomorrow to pick up. Thanks again for talking strategy with a newbie - it's appreciated.
 79
 8024) nycavri: Build R2 Nycavri
 81zoltar: ...just in time
 82
 8325) zoltar: Discover Y2 Greenbelt G3 Greendale
 84zoltar: You may wish to take that move back, as it's now mate in three or so.
 85
 86zoltar: I can sac my Y2 in zoltar to move a Y2 from Greenbelt to nycavri. As you are defenseless without the R3, you can't capture the Y2, nor can you move your R3 back to your homeworld. So next move I sac my R1 in Zoltar and take your R1 and win the game. Or you can build an R2 in your homeworld and I sac my R1 and take your R2 and it's checkmate the move after that!
 87
 8826) nycavri: Discover R2 Nycavri G1 Sunset
 89nycavri: Thanks again - spending too much time worrying about my position, and too little about yours. Good lesson to learn.
 90
 9127) zoltar: Trade B2 G2 Zoltar
 92zoltar: It's almost always deadly to move or sacrifice your defending 3-size piece in your homeworld. The only reason I've got away with it is to keep you out of yellow production, so while you can't reach my homeworld, I'm safe without a large piece, but eventually I'll want to restore one there as well.
 93
 9428) nycavri: Build R2 Sunset
 95
 9629) zoltar: Sacrifice G2 Zoltar
 97Build R3 Zoltar
 98Build R3 Zoltar
 99
10030) nycavri: Trade R2 G2 Downtown
101
10231) zoltar: Trade R3 G3 Zoltar
103
10432) nycavri: Sacrifice B1 Downtown
105Trade R3 Y3 Nycavri
106nycavri: So, you successfully demonstrated why a Yellow is necessary in the opening! Happy to play it out anyway....
107
10833) zoltar: Move R3 Zoltar Greenbelt
109zoltar: Actually, it was the blue that was necessary, along with green, as if you created another green or blue, you could immediately trade it for a yellow piece.
110nycavri: Right, right, that's what I said. ;)
111
11234) nycavri: Build Y3 Nycavri
113
11435) zoltar: Sacrifice Y2 Zoltar
115Move Y1 Greenbelt Downtown
116Move Y1 Downtown Nycavri
117Catastrophe Nycavri Y
118zoltar: Oops, I want to think about this for a minute or two first, actually.
119
12036) nycavri: Trade G1 Y1 Downtown
121zoltar: Well, at least you finally got your yellow ship!
122
12337) zoltar: Sacrifice G3 Zoltar
124Build R2 Zoltar
125Build R3 Zoltar
126Build R3 Greenbelt
127
12838) nycavri: Discover Y1 Downtown G3 Ues
129zoltar: Of course if you try to get a third yellow, I can blow up all your yellow ships and your star, but you had few other options
130
13139) zoltar: Move R2 Zoltar Nycavri
132
13340) nycavri: Move Y1 Ues Sunset
134zoltar: I think I can win right away my moving my y2 ship into your homeworld, but I'll retract that and play it more slowly as I usually would.
135nycavri: Ooooh. You got in just in time - I had entered my move.....
136nycavri: But yes, I assumed you had the win next turn with y2 to my Homeworld.
137
13841) zoltar: Attack R1 Nycavri
139zoltar: Actually, moving my G3 from my homeworld to yours (which is possible now that your small star is gone) would have won the most decisively. But getting all the red ships first is the safe way to proceed as I can attack next move if I wish.
140
141nycavri: If you are happy to continue playing a rookie, send me a direct challenge. I'm flying back to New York tomorrow, and will be back at my computer regularly after Tuesday. Thanks for taking the time to coach me - it's appreciated. And yes, you can bet on seeing a BGY opening from me in future!